Jimmy Dickens
Abstergo Galactic
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2011.12.10 21:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:
... however one idea in particular i somewhat liked is that of a T2 probe that, when 100% result is achieved, drops you within 10 to 30km of the cloaked ship. What i like about it is that its ridiculously easy for the cloaked pilot to prevent being detected by just A) warping to a different safespot still cloaked or B) move around a little bit. However, unless the pilot ACTS, he is going to be found. (Even if he is moving/orbiting something). It goes perfectly well with that most of us have been taught that the only 100% safe place in EVE is inside a station, and it can hardly be considered a nerf. It will only add to the game, and make cloak-camping a system that much more fun and rewarding.
Here's where the idea completely fails. Wormholes. In wormholes, being undetectable while cloaked is a vital part of the whole. It's necessary, for example, to have your cloaked ship parked for days or even weeks in an enemy system while gathering intel in preparations for an op. If you allow any type of probes (or other means) to be able to detect cloaked ships, you're completely changing the entire wormhole paradigm to the point that it will be almost a requirement to have someone parked somewhere with these probes out constantly scanning the system for the slightest whiff of a cloaked vessel. You would, effectively, nerf the living hell out of the inherent dangers of wormhole living...
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Come up with a solution that doesn't break other aspects of the game (such as wormholes), balances things and creates a bit more of a dynamic approach to things while preserving the fact that null space is intended to be a dangerous place to live.
Cloak detection or auto-decloaking break the wormhole aspect, so you'll need to start somewhere else.
Hi. My Name's Jimmy. I'm a cloaky...
I don't know if there is a major problem with AFK cloaking, but it does seem just a teensy bit unfair that there is no risk to provide a constant implied threat with essentially zero effort (AFK being the least effort possible) - it's the combination of these factors that tips the balance SLIGHTLY in the direction of the cloaky. I don't like the idea of being decloaked any more than the next cloaky - quite frankly, the ships are fragile as hell - especially bombers. I think the general idea is that it should be POSSIBLE... SOMEHOW... to counter and prevent this psychological tactic, not just ignore and prepare - the question is exactly how to make it fair for everyone - possible, but not easy.
I've read many suggestions as I browsed through the forums, and many seem to break something that otherwise works pretty well. I see how some claim it's meta gaming (when you're AFK, you're not playing - by definition, I would say that's "meta"), but I'm also generally a fan of not breaking or nerfing an existing game function (as in lower stats or remove capabilities) -- instead, I am a proponent of providing one option for a counter to a tactic. So, concerning the T2 Probes idea quoted above, that sounds pretty decent at first, except that it breaks a big part of wormholes... How about this for a solution?
T2 probes called something like "Covert Combat Probes" - essentially combat probes but a little weaker, which plays into the next part. These probes - by themselves - are inferior to standard combat probes, which are of course inferior to Sister's Combat Probes. Most of the time, they are simply weaker versions of the standard equivalents (similar to T2 strip miners), but are usable in a pinch. However, there's another part to the equation: some sort of high-CPU-and-Power POS module or SOV upgrade (or a combination of the two) that has an affect system wide to generate subtle signals in a cloaking field that can be faintly detected by these special probes.
A simple POS module would require onlining time and be expensive enough to run so that it would be completely impractical - if even theoretically possible - to run constantly, but COULD be used in a WH. To completely eliminate WH use, make it a strategic sovereignty upgrade (level 3 or so) or make it require one - like "Cloaking Disruption" or "Cloaking Perturbation".
Depending upon what the devs think about this possibility, it could make T1 cloaks easier to detect or even have a significant effect on them (like make them not work?) while allowing the greatly superior covert ops cloaks to still function, but become barely detectable with the specialized equipment. - this would, of course, make BOBS detectable and visible, so its up to the implementers...
This idea would require significant resources and preparation on the part of the system "holder" (SOV Upgrade and/or POS module, PLUS an available T2 prober, PLUS extra fuel usage PLUS onlining time) but still make it POSSIBLE to defend themselves against this tactic. The significant cost of running the system would mean there would have to be someone in local (and probably for a long time) before you even thought of turning the thing on.
Once this module/structure is online, the Covert Combat Probes would be able to detect cloaked ships - but not very accurately. Every warpable signature would only get you on the grid (or maybe somewhere within 20-30(-50??) km) - YOU would have to send a bunch of ships to flush out an AFK cloaker - avoiding such a fleet would be beyond simple for a cloaky sitting at his desk: right click -> warp to 100K (or similar)... or even double click in space. A somewhat reasonable defense for AFK cloakies might even be to simply keep moving (though you could end up moving TOWARDS the fleet...)
Commentary welcome :D
I know most of these are pretty basic, but I hate it when people use acronyms/abbreviations I don't know...
AFK: Away From Keyboard -- WH: Worm Hole -- POS: Player Owned Starbase -- SOV: Sovereignty -- BOBS: Black Ops Battle Ships -- T1/T2: Tech I/II |